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 dp |
Watching your backcast |
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Posts: 10 (04/26/09 08:14:23) |
As one who earned a certificate to continue learning from John Wilson a few years ago, I have a question for forum readers. How many of you watch your back
cast? How many of you teach your students to watch and analyze their cast by watching their back cast? Why or why not?
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Last Edited By: dp 04/26/09 08:22:22.
Edited 2 times.
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FlyFishAR |
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Posts: 7933 (04/26/09 17:41:36) ezOP |
Everything you need to know is told in the forward cast.
Last Edited By: FlyFishAR
04/26/09 21:28:48.
Edited 1 times.
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Jim Laing |
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Posts: 236 (04/26/09 18:18:10) |
That is a 3 point zen-like answer if I ever saw one. How about this - the BC is the blueprint of the forward cast. Those sound pretty good, but there are
several things that can be screwed up after a near perfect back cast.
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FlyFishAR |
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Posts: 7936 (04/26/09 21:37:29) ezOP |
Here is what I mean by that answer....
If your forward loop......... 1. ....... has 2 distinct points or climbs, your back cast is too low or you are taking your tip too far back. 2. ....... is flat on top your back cast is too low or has a dip in it. 3. ....... kicks to the left your back cast is off to the right 4. ....... kicks off to the right your back cast is off to the left 5. ....... is wavy and not smooth your back cast does not have a good enough loop to straighten out all the way I don't have to see your golf swing to be able to tell how you hit a golf ball. All I have to see is the ball flight. In the same way you don't have to see your back cast to be able to tell what it is doing. All you have to see is how your forward cast is reacting to it. There are numbers of things that can change your back cast, wind being the most obvious. If you can't change your cast without having to look at it you are really handicapped. |
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grhen |
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Posts: 125 (04/26/09 23:54:57) |
Can you explain #2?
Guy Manning
FFF Master Certified Casting Instructor Moderator FFFCCI Yahoo Group www.castflys.net |
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FlyFishAR |
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Posts: 7938 (04/27/09 06:15:07) ezOP |
It looks like a standard spey loop. It has a secondary point but is over come by power and a good stop.
That is a loop that is formed when the casts are out of plane in the verticle axis. The kick side to side is a loop out of plane in the horizontal axis. |
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dr gonzoe |
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Posts: 947 (04/27/09 11:25:46) |
FlyFishAR wrote: 
Check your fly often. |
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Terry Beeson |
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Posts: 2721 (04/27/09 13:09:03) |
The only time I will look at my backcast is when practicing and then only to gain a point of reference for my stop to avoid #1...
"I am
not against golf, since I cannot but suspect it keeps
armies of the unworthy from discovering
trout..." - Paul O’Neil
Click here to visit my website... |
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FlyFishAR |
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Posts: 7941 (04/27/09 13:15:15) ezOP |
Terry if my back cast looked like yours I wouldn't look at it either.
(Actually an old Lefty Kreh quote / jab at your buddy. Figured it fit for this thread. Just wondered when would be a good opportunity to use it.  )
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Terry Beeson |
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Posts: 2722 (04/27/09 14:53:56) |
Yeah... If my dog looked like your backcast, I'd paint his butt and make him walk backwards...
(Obviously, you HAVE seen me cast, John...
"I am
not against golf, since I cannot but suspect it keeps
armies of the unworthy from discovering
trout..." - Paul O’Neil
Click here to visit my website... |
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dp |
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Posts: 11 (04/27/09 19:09:15) |
Perhaps I should not have gone in two different directions. One do you watch?......two do you teach this?
I have to admit that much of my fishing is for largemouth bass. I'm typically casting an 8 or 9, big flies, alot of distance. I'm mostly in a boat or shore line fishing. This is wide open country up here and wind is generally present. Having said that I generally am watching my back cast. I don't think I'm handicapping myself. I do think I probally sacrifice some accuracey though. But there does realy seem to be two different schools of thought in the litereature and among some instructors. Other than Jim (and I know where he got it from!) opinion here seems to be against watching your line during the back cast. Any one else out there??
Last Edited By: dp
04/27/09 19:15:28.
Edited 1 times.
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troutdoc |
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Posts: 138 (04/27/09 19:49:00) |
I have a given distance that I can fish without looking at the backcast. I can usually wade into position to accommodate my limitations. If the fishy is out of
my comfort zone, I watch my backcast to try to anticipate the line straightening out. It's not a sin to watch your backcast, but for most folks it is a
compromise between distance and accuracy. Maybe yoga would help.
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dp |
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Posts: 12 (04/27/09 20:01:13) |
troutdoc- I would agree with you 100%........geeze maybe this is like AA
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FlyFishAR |
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Posts: 7944 (04/27/09 21:26:57) ezOP |
The real problem with looking at your back cast is that you have a tendancy to turn your body and thus move the rod tip. That said Steve Rajeff will look at his back cast when he is casting really long distances. Most casters at that level will in fact. The reasoning is that you can no longer "feel" a back cast once it gets out past about 70 feet. What does Steve Rajeff know about casting anyway? |
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Jim Laing |
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Posts: 237 (04/28/09 06:17:54) |
John why is 70' feet the magic number for not feeling the back cast. To much line/ distance, and by the time you feel it your dragging (ticking) on the
FC?
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riverpeace |
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Posts: 12 (04/30/09 11:17:20) |
Next, we'll all be wearing these . . . . RP
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hauloholic2 |
Backcast Watching | ||
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Posts: 545 (04/30/09 12:57:21) Moderator |
I watch my backcast when I want to know what it is doing. Simple as that. There are times that I already instictively know, and there are times that I
don't. Tracking does not HAVE to suffer if you watch your backcast, but if you allow horizontal rotation to occur, then as John noted, it can cause severe
tracking errors.
I encourage 100% of my students to do the same thing I do. Early on, watching your backcast will help you develop a sense of cause/effect between the caster's motion, the rod's loading/unloading, and the loop response. It just makes the learning that much quicker. This is typically done sidearm casting at or just above ground level, with a wide open stance so the caster can easily observe rod and line at all times. Then, as the student progresses, there will be times to watch, and times it's unnecessary. Implying that they should NOT watch to me seems like I'd be handicapping them. If you want to see it, by all means, LOOK! JMO, though. John's a better caster and teacher than me! John, are you saying that a layout that hooks to the right or left can ONLY come from one backcast setup (each)? Can you not have a PERFECT backcast, and then create a hook purely from your forward stroke? haul |
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FlyFishAR |
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Posts: 7961 (04/30/09 13:52:21) ezOP |
Troy: Ok ok you have snatched the rock from my hand.......... |
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dp |
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Posts: 14 (04/30/09 15:48:56) |
What is going on with a back cast that is flat but the front of the loop seems to be climbing up?
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dp |
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Posts: 15 (04/30/09 15:52:02) |
riverpeace wrote:should be mandatory in MO trout parks!
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hauloholic2 |
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Posts: 546 (04/30/09 16:06:45) Moderator |
LOL, you crack me up John.
I have to admit to being embarassed at my response above. Normally I will type something and then go away for a while and then review it before posting. My normal (not always great) judgment is even worse today -- just got in from the island and haven't slept in almost 2 days. I really wasn't intending to bash your thoughts, but my post comes across as something of a contradictory attack. John, you're one of the most graceful powercasters I've ever seen, and your teaching is equally inspired. Please accept my sincere apology. I'll leave your nards alone... Troy |
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