Davyfly wrote:
ok, so we are saying here that after the rod is stopped and the loop formation is formed that no further rod or line movement can alter that, if so l would not agree with that.

Davy, I don't think that is what is said. It is the loop and the direction of the cast that cannot be changed. You can do a downward mend to dump the cast.  You can backward mend (pull back) to increase velocity and land short or snap the fly.  But the direction of the cast and the loop will persist until the line hits the ground or the loop unfurls.

You can overpower and flip the loop over but technically that is not the original loop because the original has straightened and a second rod leg and fly leg have formed.

As I think about the shape of the loop, I suppose there things that can be done such as release or shoot line into a cast immediately after the stop so that rod no longer provides the counter tension of Newton's third law. This would prematurely collapse the loop that would have unfurled had we not shot line. Would this count as affecting the direction or loop of the cast after the stop? Or is this a "mend" that manipulates the line after the stop?

I think it depends on what the speaker meant by the direction or loop. Was he referring to a cast and not mends? If so, the rod and line manipulations described above occur after the stop. Line and rod manipulation before the stop is the traditional definition of the cast. The actual "cast" ends at the rod "stop". The aerial mends then manipulate the cast in the air after the "cast" has occured.

Here is a more extreme example of what we could call a curve cast or a curve mend.

A corkscrew curve "cast" sends a secondary bulge of fly line after the unfurling loop. After the loop has unfurled, it changes the direction of the leader and line so the it curves right or left. So does that meet the criteria of "changing the direction or loop after the stop"? Or is it an "in the air mend" because the "corkscrew" happens after the stop? Whether you think you can change the loop or direction of a cast after the stop, I think depends on whether you consider these "added" motions mends or part of the cast. I think of them as mends.

Now here is the corkscrew curve cast. you decide whether it meets the definition of a cast or a mend.

A better way to make a curve cast was published in 1980 by Bob Pelzl and Gary Borger on pg. 58 of the 1980 Early Season issue of Fly Fisherman Magazine titled "Corkscrew Curve Cast". Now we have video so you can see Jason Borger demonstrating this cast.


Look at these two videos of Jason Borger doing the corkscrew curve cast. Because he adds the corkscrew before the stop, the curve is place in the fly line at the leader. Look at both videos - on the second one you can see the end of the fly line curving to the left. 


http://jasonborger.com/2009/02/24/corkscrew-curve-vids/


Here is an extreme corkscrew curve.


http://fishfliesandwater.com/2009/03/26/corkscrew-curve-extreme/


Now here is what confuses even seasoned casters.


Before the stop, Jason moves the rod tip to the left and then in a semicircle (corkscrew) to the right. He is producing a two pulses, first to the left then to the right that travel down the fly line.


Here are two illustrations from the original article:


image


image


If you did not know Jason made that initial motion to the left, you would only see the final corkscrew to the right, and you would think a rightward motion made a leftward curve.


No wonder even accomplished casters are puzzled by this cast.


What ever you do with the rod tip after the stop affects how the fly line lands; and the sooner you do it after the stop, the closer the change in fly line direction will be to the leader. Everything is related to the stop, because it is the stop that causes loop formation and transfers potential energy from the bent rod to the fly line. What happens is that any change in direction or position of the rod tip is transmitted to the fly line and travels down the fly line following the loop as it moves from the rod tip to the end of the line and leader.





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Last Edited By: Silvercreek Jan 11 13 9:17 AM. Edited 1 times.