Well, I agree with both of you, and this is how.

The statement was, "The "caster" cannot affect the loop or the direction of a cast once the stop has been made and the loop forms"

Notice that there are TWO conditions to the statement.

Condition 1 is the stop. Condition 2 is loop formation. Dp is addressing condition 1 and Chris is addressing condition 2. You are both talking about the statement but different sections. Dp is correct in that the stop initiates loop formation, however, after the stop, Chris is correct that rotation of the rod determines the size and therefore the shape of the loop.

At the hard stop, there must be a very slight flip of the rod tip down so that the fly line can clear the rod tip. The degree of this slight flip controls the loops size. I believe that this "flipping" or rotation of the rod so the tip moves down is one element of rod rotation that Chris is talking about.

The illustration below is from pg 31 of Jason Borger's Nature of Fly Casting demonstrates that a small flip = a tight loop. "All else being equal, the more the rod tip is flipped away from the the Line Plane (Phase Two), the larger the line loop will be.

image

As the illustration shows, this flip occurs after the stop which initiates loop formation as dp stated, but it also shows that Chris is correct that rod rotation after the stop determines loop shape. 

One can also interpret Chris' "rod rotation" to mean the stroke path that the angler moves the rod through prior to the stop. This determines the path the rod tip takes and the path of the rod tip determines the loop shape that initially forms at the stop. We all know a very convex rod tip path creates a very open loop, and that a concave path creates a tailing loop. Rod rotation is an integral part determining loop shape.  Excess rod rotation (through a greater than optimum angle) can open the loop, and a lack of enough rod rotation (less than optimum angle) will close the loop. So rod rotation in combination with the rod stroke determines the shape of the loop.

In the image below both rod rotation and stroke path have been optimized for a tight loop. There are two motions being combined to create the SLP for a tight loop. The first is the convex shape of the rod stoke path (note the convex path of the reel which is fixed to the rod butt), and the second is the rotation or tipping of the rod angle back and forth during the convex stroke path. 

image

If caster performed a "windshield" wiper cast in which the caster rotates the rod though a large angle, this would create an open loop. If the caster did not rotate the rod at all but instead performed a "push and pull" stroke of a vertical rod without rotating it, there would be a closed loop. Or if the angler fixed the rod butt and only rotated the rod without a convex stroke to compensate for rod shortening, there would be a closed loop as in the demo below.

image

Now let us examine the intial statement again, "The "caster" cannot affect the loop or the direction of a cast once the stop has been made and the loop forms" It is OBVIOUS to me that the statement is addressing what happens AFTER loop formation. I believe the statement is correct. Once the loop has formed, the caster cannot affect the loop or the direction of the cast. He can do an aerial mend to affect where the trailing line will land, or he can shoot line to lengthen the cast; but the direction and the loop shape have been determined.


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Last Edited By: Silvercreek Jan 9 13 6:40 PM. Edited 4 times.